hey everyone uh welcome back to the get chatty welcome

sorry hey everyone arthur the chatty curator here and welcome back to uh me and monica spilling the tedia and have a little tea talk about things around the world and things that i thought we found just start a conversation with everyone um and yeah so in this episode that we both just watched a youtube video from abc comedy by a really funny comedian sammy j it’s a really interesting take of how um they’re very well intended individuals in different space like you know politics corporate to just talk about what they think they can do and i really enjoy the presentation of this video but it’s just way too real isn’t it

it is in some ways it’s sad that that is really happening around us and it’s very just just common and and um you know they they play different roles in the video right they have politician they have like large companies ethically friend and someone who is just a commoner but that is often how we react to things including myself too sometimes when we are hearing all these people saying like oh you know i have done this uh i say that i i have represented someone who say something like this i’m trying to help them to get a voice and i just switch off because it’s another person talking and but there’s really no action or super super delayed actions and so no wonder a lot of people get really frustrated and and then you can see all these movements around the world you know people just want to stream because they think that they’re being they are not being heard and um people who actually represent their voice actually don’t understand what they’re going through and there are no changes for too long too long a period of time i truly understand that because um you know i come from a country where it this this sort of thing happens i think it is very common around the world it’s not just to us people in australia but it’s actually happening around the world and of course certain segments of the community will experience it worse than others like asian people usually are very quiet you go around the world in asian people live they’re like normat sometimes too too to me you will find asian people in any corner of the world and but they’re often very quiet they are the people who just try to do their things and then you know in the background and try to feed their family and do their best and then just not to disturb anyone and that’s how we are the culture we are but that doesn’t mean that we don’t want to get hurt right but on the other hand i can also understand people like in the video and say well meaning white people right or maybe we say the majority of a population in a certain country that is how they are being taught through the education system how to respond how to acknowledge differences how they can help other people by just having a conversation first my husband say oh you’re going to do a podcast that you know you just talk only and no action are you going to be part of that kind of people i’m like i can’t answer him right because i haven’t shown him the action that i can take but i hope by doing this i can build up the message and connections with my community and maybe you spring into actions but these are the things that we see happening in a community and this is how we are being educated to actually reach out and approach uh people who are different from us and we are we have our biases we don’t fully understand all the differences and how people are who are different from us how they live their life and you know that sort of things so if i put myself in their shoes perhaps it is true they think they are doing something good enough because what else can i do you know or what other channels can i use and so it is a very very complicated issues but saying that doesn’t mean we can’t improve

i think i will i’ll share that there’s actually two occasions of well-meaning white people that i experienced with the first one is back in like 2002 when i was in uni um i think i had a because at back in the back in that point in time yes it is within this century we can’t just say it’s 1990 something 1980 no it was two thousand uh and then um one of our um because i was i i was in an art school and then at that time there was a lecturer that i actually clashed with him quite a bit because he’s like you know and not only himself but other faculties in this art school in university of new south wales that they are actively teaching appropriation which is uh cultural appropriation and i really dislike it i really don’t like it and i really speak out against it and of course that i i unfortunately that i don’t get really good result of that uh of that semester um but i think one of the key things for me is that and in the very ironic takeaway is if i do something of asian references then still i will get good marks from pretend to be japanese or pretend to be korean which i have no effing ideas i like that food that’s all so it’s a little bit like uh but of course i understand that at that point in time that’s the creative movement that’s like you know if you look at if you look at even consumer culture or if you look at advertising and everything that you do kind of have that predominantly white people and then asian cultures or other cultures are being appropriated as packaged products in a way so i can see why uh this lecture was teaching the student this way um but no i i i was really vocal against that uh but of course anyway uh yeah yeah so i can tell you other very experienced people often are blinded by their own experience that they think it is the most appropriate way to to go about these issues to actually help people that way like when i was a very young like i’m still young but uh younger academic stuff i just started teaching but there are some student issues i just thought how can we manage that better so i went to a senior person a white uh leader in the teaching and learning space and he’s very nice and i talk to him i say you know these are the issues that i’m facing with the students and he’s like

interesting monica interesting you know what my wife is an asian academic um i never never heard that she say anything like this

that’s it that’s it okay i walk out of the room and say is it my age isn’t it maybe it’s my age maybe i will get better if i have more experience just like that no actually i need to know what’s in his coffee i need to know the brand name that sounds like some good [ _ ] that he’s been having it’s a little bit loud like are we just being talking heads about talking [ _ ] on the internet yes we are but what we’re hoping to do is by doing this we can gather the the the momentum with other like-minded people who are open to talk about these kind of things who are because the thing is for the community that like when you know for the time that we grew up in we were taught to be quiet but i was like i’ll be quiet for five seconds i’ll take a deep breath and start talking like you know that’s that’s just the way i am and and i’m not going to suppress that and i don’t think other people should be too because the thing is if we allow that to perpetuate then other people other well-meaning individuals they are maybe white or maybe other color people of color that they don’t really know um that’s right what everyone’s going through and if we are too afraid to start a conversation then it will go nowhere yes right now we’re just talking that we’re just talking rubbish like you know we’re just having more knowledge this is about yours is vodka i know i wish it is now so i mean it’s a little bit like yeah so we um i don’t know i think that it is an opportunity for us to talk about something about it and i know that the world has improved so much and and i’ll give you my second example it’s actually happened last year um a really good friend of mine is very talented artist and he was um he was about to exhibit at a show in melbourne and this really talented and really good curator as well but i never met i never met him before and uh he wrote he mocked up a synopsis about the show and i was about to open it as uh as the curator of uh as a curator of the show of course i didn’t really curate it but then it’s part of a talk or something like a guest appearance um but i but based on that it was so interesting because this uh this particular person at the gallery he’s actually written something that makes sense to me that uh i guess with presumption because we never talked before we never we don’t really know each other much and then he saw my linkedin profile so he presumed that i am from china and have lived experience as a chinese person uh but i actually have to explain to him it’s like look i mean i actually um i was never chinese national and i couldn’t speak mandarin neither so i i can’t exactly accept um but then i can understand that um that will be the perception that the audience also have if they saw a name like mine because my name is chen so it’s very obvious it’s a chinese name uh and i’m proud of my chinese heritage uh but i do tell people that i’m a hong kong authority because i’m uh well anyway let’s not go into that yet but then um i i think it is interesting because this photographer who’s exhibiting was documenting his experience in mandarin speaking china and the community there and it was so interesting but i know that if i barge in as one of the speakers of the event people would have a perception of a certain way and i would actually work i would unintentionally become a force against what the message of that exhibition is about and i don’t want that because and you might distract that message absolutely because this particular uh series of photographic series is talking about like you know seeking an identity and seeking like you know the question about seeking opportunities overseas and things like that and i love that series i really like it and i don’t want to unintentionally become a force against it just because of how i look how my name sound and when people have a perception and i agree with them that look i mean actually oh yeah actually you might be better if you actually get someone with a live experience in china or someone with chinese heritage or someone uh who like a was a chinese national or something like that to really help you with that topic i wish i can be i really wish that and i really wish i could support that show like that but i can’t i just can’t because but then that’s another well-meaning approach is that i guess i learned by talking so much in case if you haven’t noticed i do uh he said i learned over these years compared to my first incident with the with the lecturer is that i learned to really just look at the intention behind uh what they were doing it’s sometimes that if someone like you know well well-meaning people if they’re white or other colors or whatever if they’re well-meaning i would love to start a conversation i would love to get them to get to know me and get to know what my story is and my my conviction and everything in between my my uh my questions and my you know and everything and i would love to get to know them too so that’s why i was like yeah are we talking heads at the moment yes we are but i hope that you know people will connect with us reach out to us and yeah and sorry you were about to say something yeah other you know talking is a type of action yes right we’re taking action if you see a problem do something as simple as that you don’t have to wait and go oh you know like the other day i was like hmm you know the coffee is so bad in india at dinner i was telling my husband my mom is like so bad you know some of my students are really affected like they are here yes they are safe but the family are dying like their friend’s girlfriend is dying oh my god imagine that stress and you can’t go back to do anything about it you know you can hear they are dying but you can’t do anything then i say what can i do what can i do right and my mom said what can you do as just one person i’m like we have to do something on one person yeah right look we know our limitation like we’re not the savior of the world but at least you know we can be ears to listen to to yeah like to bear to all if we know that there’s somewhere that they can get some help like maybe like mental health or well-being or financial or something like that then we can refer it’s a little bit like yeah in this location we’re just talking ahead we’re just talking and listening but you know just like my intention of the whole get chatty about your local businesses series is that people you know or people you read people you refer to might not be the direct person who can help you but they might know someone who can help i think i have information that can help and then if we just stay in quiet no one would know no one understands what the true situation is no one knows who’s in in in trouble and by talking now we hope to connect with people who might have some answers who are willing to actually join forces to find some answers and by talking we actually make connections and that connections can build a network and when the network is built there will be collective resources and that is the point step by step we are taking actions every time when we talk to someone we’re taking action you never know that the other person who is listening they go oh i know someone who can help you know and that’s it just like the other day there’s a student of mine very very sad her father passed away okay in india kovitz so sad i mean you’re studying here and your father passed away and you can’t even say a goodbye to your beloved one and then on top of that because the father is the main financier of the family her brother who is studying in med school were told to drop out because there’s no more finance he’s in the middle of his study and lost his father and now the school say drop out because i don’t know how you can pay the fee and her sister works as a nurse in the hospital oh my god put yourself in that situation she came to see me because the assignment was going to be due soon and she said my space my head is not in the right space monica i i want to submit this and i know she’s a good student but i just cannot have that strength to push to meet this deadline but i will be up like maybe three days late can you give me an extension i said yes i give you an extension but i think you need more than just an extension right these things doesn’t go away overnight just after i submit my assignment then i’ll be fine i say no no i say how can you cope for the rest of the trimester to finish your she has four subjects she enrolled in so i say and classes are online right and i although the campus are open i say i want you to come in i’m going to go into a classroom and teach in that classroom i want you to sit in front of me just like that i want you to see in front of me and also other classes you can request i will help you and i say just sit in front of me i want your your head in that space when you are studying you’re studying i say you can go home at night and worry about your family and that’s totally fine right you give your space to deal with your personal issue but i want you to make sure you can study and this is the space where we will create for you you focus and she came in she really she did came in last week and she told me this is so good because i need to put four walls around me and i really feel good to be here so that i can temporarily forget about my problems and just focus on making sure i can finish my study and then when i go home i’ll deal with the problem with my husband at home and then i come again like that so this is one person the effort of what one person can do and she talks i’m so glad she talked to me and then we try to find a solution she did not have the solution but someone else may thought of something we can always try to do something so that we can maybe find the best solution there’s no better solution there’s only a decision to be made today which can lead to a better decision tomorrow even if it is a wrong decision there is a decision but we learn from it we improve exactly it’s it’s a little bit like um i think if your student didn’t tell you what she’s going through um it can end up really tragic and of course like you know um you are you won’t be able to solve every single problem in her life but at least you are enabling a space for a short period of time each day that she can focus on one thing at a time and hopefully that would get her out of that um oh gosh i’m i feel so sorry for her it’s a little bit like this is this is well that’s why that’s why that’s this is why people need to speak out because um i think at least it will be good that when people when well-meaning people can connect with each other like-minded people can connect with each other like you said it’s a network of people and then when they’re a voice similar voices come together that’s how we get stronger well i mean there’s good example that it can happen it can well uh i don’t know if it’s a good example but you know donald trump supporters you know they come together because they’re like-minded they don’t they don’t stop talking about themselves and the message is clear and loud everyone follow the same one single message easy for them to just build a big force because they talk well i mean this is going to sound horrible but then it’s a little bit like well we’re kind of re-engineering that but let’s just try not to be [ _ ] like you know it’s a little bit like you know just because we are not [ _ ] well i am but i don’t know about you but then we can still be kind of good people okay that’s a little bit like if they can do it if they can put mobilize themselves to get to where they did in january 2021 i mean we all know what happened in washington dc in america but look i mean i think there is potential in there and it is possible and i’m so sorry i have to use that as example because i can’t think of any other example

but then oh [ _ ] i mean look like you know we are re-engineering [ _ ] into that’s something good but you know you are a marketer right other you know the value of good message by good message it doesn’t mean well-meaning message it means a message that can just go and reach out you know to a lot of people and donald trump is very good with that he knows exactly what that one single simple message will work bang i mean with all of the but with all of the people even if they don’t support him like you know then you know at least they will have a question it’s like all that money in that hair like you know that kind of thing is okay

i was like wow okay but i think this is the thing because like you know i think what i’m i’m not saying that this idea is re-engineering the [ __ ] there but there’s some parallel there that we can draw and then it’s a little bit like you know if we believe in something believe that we can actually uh go out there and find our tribes find the people similar to us and start a conversation it can become something and we don’t need to storm a capital building for it no no we can just a very simple thing is to share stories you know if you share your story um i think one that if you watch the video one thing is so common among all the well-meaning messages is they are so hollow hollow you know it’s like i’ve done this yesterday i walked the march i saw hollow like so what right so when you share story is honest that’s truth in the story that people can resonate and connect with what your experience is and that is the important we don’t want to just send messages out like that you know like a hollow messages but it is the stories we we share with one another that build this whole intricate web of experience and draw resources in draw attention and that’s what we we i i hope you you are also with the same name and we aim to actually be able to build that community who can share resources to help each other it may not directly from the two of us here but they might then realize oh there are other people who actually have similar experience or maybe i reach out to them right and the other thing is

we have too many um institutionalized bodies that which are good that they they draw funding they draw attention to specific topics like you know um lgbt group or you have now a lot of unfortunate uh family abuse cases so there are different specialized groups that actually provide support to victims and their families and people who get affected which is i think fantastic initiatives in the community but i bet because someone start talking these all these start to spring up right and then they become a visible group that can actually draw resources in to provide those who are in need but we should not just then think uh you go to that that group over there they have the resources for you now in the first place because someone start talking and someone is willing to help that person and we gather larger force we form this group it should not then draw a limit and a boundary and so only that group will provide support and resources any one of us can with little steps that we take i think this is this is an interesting thing like you know this is a this is something that we we chat about yesterday like before the recording and things like that is that um so many people are within a silo that you know um and i think when once they once they um once a group of people achieve a certain level of um of mass of people that have that voice together um that process slows down and then they kind of like form a bit of a bubble which in in our opinion like i guess we both agree on that one is a little bit like it’s not the most healthy way to do it because sometimes it’s not about you get this refer you to here it’s not like it’s not like a corporation like you know if you have a problem with your printer go to it or if you have a have an issue with with a leaking wall just go to building management it’s not like that because there are issues in the world not only about like you know uh being maybe like you know a social issue or cultural issues or uh sexuality gender every of these identification i think one of the the next step that all of this group can do is forming collaborations together and just really align each other together because there’s no reason that they should not be and then it’s also good that they are talking to each other to find common issues because you know i mean um there’s actually there’s a saying that you know divide and conquer if we divide ourselves then it’s actually easier for other [ _ ] to hit the fan to i’m not going as far as saying that we’ll be attacked or like predicting someone will attack us but then you know that if you look at it from the other side of it is if you’re being overly siloed then people don’t need to divide and conquer you already divide it so it’s a little bit like oh it’s a little bit like you know it’s a little bit like those those canned tuna that with the with the easy easy handle it’s a little bit oh you already make yourself to be uh to be hit hard so um and the loneliness loneliness will set in yeah and the thing is look i mean even for however well-meant well-meaning groups are there is that sometimes sometimes you don’t find everything 100 agree or comply with what you’re doing is a person so sometimes that you do need to like you know um you know you do need to like be in multiple groups or reach out to other groups collaboration that work together so i think that’s what we want to take out from this video is a little bit like it’s a really good satire video and i think it is a good way to for us to just um yeah so hopefully that people can draw to us uh and so monica so if people want to reach out to you for for just a conversation or whatever uh how they can they find you we have repeated drop a message below and we will get back to you so whichever platform you see this video drop a message and then we’ll get back to you and we really really love to hear from you we have all our biases i acknowledge that and i may not know everything and you know one day my son said to me oh you are smart so you tell me this i say no no i don’t know everything in the world i’m still learning okay so if you can also provide things that can improve you know what we talk about and sharing that is exactly what we want to do i’m quoting someone about that but then uh someone i heard was actually really good is that uh she said i don’t know what i want but i know what i don’t want so uh so that’s a really good starting point and after if they don’t want to put the public comments they can just tell us and we will reach out to them in email in private they can share the story no names calling no no identification of who they are they can actually um if they want they can send me a direct message on chat curator.com uh if they don’t wish to comment on like you know youtube linkedin instagram or facebook and such that uh that that is available so you know it’s an alternative because i understand it can be sensitive topic and well i mean there’s a lot of arseholes out there that ready to put some keyboard comment like you know keyboard fighters like those kind of people just randomly just criticizing people for no reason and look you know what if we get to that point that means we made it so you know what i encourage you if you are being an [ _ ] you don’t know anything about any of us or don’t know what we do just want to put a nasty comment underneath do it so thank you in advance oh my god monica is such a joy and thank you so much it’s i i just enjoy talking to you like you know all the like you know just we just talk crazy for for like you know regularly and i think we’re so lucky we can find someone who can talk crazy to each other just like that if you enjoy this video please consider watching another one in the series or my other interview with monica or actually about your local businesses um because you know there are so many different ways that we can support each other and it’s only about starting a conversation that we can make things happen we still have a long way to go so i hope you all well have a like you know have a good rest of the morning good rest of the afternoon good rest of the evening whenever you’re watching it and meanwhile thanks monica and i hope you everyone have a good day see ya see ya